An alarmingly simplified overview of a little book that provides an insanely simplified overview of the DSM-5. Along the way I offer a powerful tip for becoming a better reader.
I think their spectrums are close, but miss the mark when compared to the empirically validated models (here I am thinking of the OCEAN/Big 5). Their neurotic vs. obnoxious spectrum, for example, actually breaks down into two discrete Big 5 categories that are independent from one another. Neuroticism (i.e. propensity to experience negative emotion) and Agreeableness (the need to have harmonious relationships with others). Likewise their anxiousness vs. carelessness, which is again probably the Big 5 Neuroticism and Conscientiousness.
Gary, do you know if their spectrums come from the world of experimental psychology, or are they just speculations on the part of the authors?
That's a very observant and interesting connection, Nils. I want to think more about it--and go back to the foundation of OCEAN/Big 5. I don't know how exactly the authors came by their spectrums. As for neuroticism, I'm curious to hear more about your gloss of it as "propensity to experience negative emotion." That seems a necessary but not a sufficient condition to define it. I've always taken the sufficient condition to be that the negative emotion stems from a propensity to look for and find the fault/blame in oneself. As to your question, the book reads like a mix of generalizing from the DSM's descriptions and applying their own organizing (speculative) principles. Thanks for taking the time to offer your thoughts; they're provoking more thoughts on the matter.
My gloss on neuroticism is not mine, but a summary sentence that I took from a paper on the Big 5. It's probably worth pointing out that the Big 5 concept of neuroticism is not the same as the Freudian/Psychoanalytic concept, which can be a source of confusion when talking about this. It may be helpful to know that the inverse of Neuroticism in the Big 5 model is called Emotional Stability; many assume that the inverse must be a propensity to experience positive emotion, but that is actually captured as a facet of Extraversion.
There are two other definitions for the Big 5 concept of Neuroticism that I found when I looked at the slides I put together on the topic:
“The degree to which a person experiences the world as threatening and beyond his/her control”
-or-
“The degree to which a person experiences and tolerates negative affective states.”
Both of these I think are also decent approximations of what the Big 5 model means by "neuroticism" when you look at the underlying "facets" (i.e. subfactors):
1. (Readiness to experience) Angry Hostility
2. Self Consciousness - sensitivity in social situations
3. Impulsiveness - Frustration tolerance, control of urges, cravings, and desire
4. Vulnerability - Ability to cope with stress
5. Depressiveness
6. Anxiousness
Your "sufficient condition" -- as you put it -- of looking for and finding blame in oneself I think contains some elements of neuroticism, but also contains the concept of "self-confidence" or "competence" that is a facet of trait Conscientiousness.
I've found the Big 5 model to really help expand my way of thinking about psychiatric illness, and challenged some of my assumptions about the spectrums these traits exist on. There is a huge corpus of well replicated literature on the subject, and I think it does a much better job of helping us think about personality than our current schema.
This is great! Thank you for the correction, Nils. You're a good teacher. I was about to circle back with a further comment because I recognized after my first response that, as you note, I am assuming a more psychoanalytically informed view, and have not been as attentive to the more current empirically validated view of neuroticism you're reporting. (I didn't intend to suggest your definition was yours in the subjective sense!) You've inspired me to do a deeper dive on OCEAN, so to speak.
High praise from a former professor! Thanks for the kind words Gary.
If you're looking for a decent book on the topic, I recall that "Personality: What makes you the way you are" by Daniel Nettle gave a good overview without being too dense and technical, though it has been a while since I read it.
I'll be eager to hear what your impressions are after your deeper dive!
Most Americans Will Want to Die in 10 Years(assuming current uptrends, etc)
2
Americans don't believe in science(optimal prevention includes asking "Wanna Die?")
3
89% of American Psychologists refuse this science(and science, etc in general?)
4
Sunday Services should include pairing congregants to ask each other: "Wanna Die?" to destigmatize asking
5
California Law 5150 requires "..ongoing assessment..."
6
Here is "Emotional and Intellectual Maturity"( ongoing assessment ) in 20 seconds daily("15 words scientifically measure anxiety, depression, anger"):
google "Brief Mood Survey"
7
The most reproducible quick way to get shrinks to propose disseminating and beginning to respond to these facts is free mediation that has a 85% success rate(requires suing them to access the court's free mediation... but they can chose to obey the law at any time to stop the suit )
I think their spectrums are close, but miss the mark when compared to the empirically validated models (here I am thinking of the OCEAN/Big 5). Their neurotic vs. obnoxious spectrum, for example, actually breaks down into two discrete Big 5 categories that are independent from one another. Neuroticism (i.e. propensity to experience negative emotion) and Agreeableness (the need to have harmonious relationships with others). Likewise their anxiousness vs. carelessness, which is again probably the Big 5 Neuroticism and Conscientiousness.
Gary, do you know if their spectrums come from the world of experimental psychology, or are they just speculations on the part of the authors?
That's a very observant and interesting connection, Nils. I want to think more about it--and go back to the foundation of OCEAN/Big 5. I don't know how exactly the authors came by their spectrums. As for neuroticism, I'm curious to hear more about your gloss of it as "propensity to experience negative emotion." That seems a necessary but not a sufficient condition to define it. I've always taken the sufficient condition to be that the negative emotion stems from a propensity to look for and find the fault/blame in oneself. As to your question, the book reads like a mix of generalizing from the DSM's descriptions and applying their own organizing (speculative) principles. Thanks for taking the time to offer your thoughts; they're provoking more thoughts on the matter.
My gloss on neuroticism is not mine, but a summary sentence that I took from a paper on the Big 5. It's probably worth pointing out that the Big 5 concept of neuroticism is not the same as the Freudian/Psychoanalytic concept, which can be a source of confusion when talking about this. It may be helpful to know that the inverse of Neuroticism in the Big 5 model is called Emotional Stability; many assume that the inverse must be a propensity to experience positive emotion, but that is actually captured as a facet of Extraversion.
There are two other definitions for the Big 5 concept of Neuroticism that I found when I looked at the slides I put together on the topic:
“The degree to which a person experiences the world as threatening and beyond his/her control”
-or-
“The degree to which a person experiences and tolerates negative affective states.”
Both of these I think are also decent approximations of what the Big 5 model means by "neuroticism" when you look at the underlying "facets" (i.e. subfactors):
1. (Readiness to experience) Angry Hostility
2. Self Consciousness - sensitivity in social situations
3. Impulsiveness - Frustration tolerance, control of urges, cravings, and desire
4. Vulnerability - Ability to cope with stress
5. Depressiveness
6. Anxiousness
Your "sufficient condition" -- as you put it -- of looking for and finding blame in oneself I think contains some elements of neuroticism, but also contains the concept of "self-confidence" or "competence" that is a facet of trait Conscientiousness.
I've found the Big 5 model to really help expand my way of thinking about psychiatric illness, and challenged some of my assumptions about the spectrums these traits exist on. There is a huge corpus of well replicated literature on the subject, and I think it does a much better job of helping us think about personality than our current schema.
Hope this is helpful!
This is great! Thank you for the correction, Nils. You're a good teacher. I was about to circle back with a further comment because I recognized after my first response that, as you note, I am assuming a more psychoanalytically informed view, and have not been as attentive to the more current empirically validated view of neuroticism you're reporting. (I didn't intend to suggest your definition was yours in the subjective sense!) You've inspired me to do a deeper dive on OCEAN, so to speak.
High praise from a former professor! Thanks for the kind words Gary.
If you're looking for a decent book on the topic, I recall that "Personality: What makes you the way you are" by Daniel Nettle gave a good overview without being too dense and technical, though it has been a while since I read it.
I'll be eager to hear what your impressions are after your deeper dive!
Wonderful overview! Love the health-as-middle of all the spectra as a final cartoon.
1
Most Americans Will Want to Die in 10 Years(assuming current uptrends, etc)
2
Americans don't believe in science(optimal prevention includes asking "Wanna Die?")
3
89% of American Psychologists refuse this science(and science, etc in general?)
4
Sunday Services should include pairing congregants to ask each other: "Wanna Die?" to destigmatize asking
5
California Law 5150 requires "..ongoing assessment..."
6
Here is "Emotional and Intellectual Maturity"( ongoing assessment ) in 20 seconds daily("15 words scientifically measure anxiety, depression, anger"):
google "Brief Mood Survey"
7
The most reproducible quick way to get shrinks to propose disseminating and beginning to respond to these facts is free mediation that has a 85% success rate(requires suing them to access the court's free mediation... but they can chose to obey the law at any time to stop the suit )